Sunday, December 28, 2008

"Message: Do Not Fuck With The Jews."

In the UK, the editorialists at the Independent wonder whether "counterproductive" rather than "disproportionate" is the better term to deploy in considering, say, a possible ground assault on Gaza: "There are, in any case, problems with the notion of proportionality in situations such as these. No state can be expected to tolerate rockets being launched at its civilians."

In the Irish Times, Zion Evrony writes: "Regarding the issue of proportionality concerning Israel's military operation, it is important to note that the principle of self-defence, according to international law, states that military actions must be measured in terms of the total threat facing a country. As such, the right to self-defence includes not just actions taken to neutralise the immediate threat, but also those taken to prevent subsequent attacks."

More to the point, Marty Peretz at the New Republic: "Frankly, I am up to my gullet with this reflex criticism of Israel as going beyond proportionality in its responses to war waged against its population with the undisguised intention of putting an end to the political expression of the Jewish nation. . . Enough. What would be proportionate, oh, so so proportionate apparently, are those tried-and-true half measures to contain Hamas that have never worked."

Better still, George Szirtes on the same subject: "But what would be proportionate? How would one go about arranging a proportionate response? Make sure one was firing duds? Aiming to miss? Executing a Hamas prisoner? Would that be internationally welcomed?"

UPDATE - George Jonas: "Certainly Israel has tolerated insurgents terrorizing civilian populations to a much greater extent than the U. S. (or, for that matter, Canada) ever would. In Canada, prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau invoked the War Measures Act in response to a few mailbox bombs and two kidnappings by the Front de liberation du Quebec. Agree with Trudeau or not, it took just one murder (Pierre Laporte), one maiming (Sergeant-Major Walter Leja) and one abduction (James Cross) to send tanks rumbling down the streets of Montreal in 1970."


Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Israel reaction were proportionate, they would be dropping one bomb for each rocket fired into Israel.

The only thing not proportionate here is the inability of the HAMAS military to aim properly and to conduct military operations aimed at military targets, not civilian targets.

7:29 AM  
Blogger Peter said...

and by "every caution" you meant what, exactly? Every caution that the murder of civilians can be retroactively justified, that "proportionality" is determined by the army with the best weapons? Or perhaps you can tell your readers just how the dozens of civilian victims of the IDF "fucked with the jews"to the point of deserving to die for it--and try doing it without hiding behind the words some fellow hack who agrees with you, as if that were proof of something--

the bloodthirstiness of your obscenity is exceeded only by the mealy-mouthed hypocrisy of your "every caution"...

Tom Friedman would be proud...

7:56 AM  
Blogger Stephen K said...

Excellent post by Matt Good on this.

11:05 AM  
Blogger Terry Glavin said...

Hi Steve.

Yes, Matt's essay was pretty good. He gets a few key facts wrong - he seems to think Hamas started shelling Israel just last week, for instance - but the conclusions he draws from the facts as he understands them are pretty reasonable. It's refreshing to read someone from Matt's perspective refrain from the usual hyperbole ("genocide," "massacre" and so on), and the key point - the hopelessness of the situation for ordinary Gazans - cannot be understated.

I don't know who this Peter guy is, but he's obviously crazy in a commonplace way - anything short of a Pavlovian, overcaffeinated condemnation of Israel is bloodthirsty and obscene. And at the further risk of being accused of "hiding behind the words of some fellow hack," the fact is I don't claim much in the way of special insight or strong opinions on the subject of how best to secure the peace and freedom of Palestinians and Israelis - which surely must be the overriding objective.

One thing I do admit I find rather morbidly fascinating is just how few civilian deaths have resulted from Israel's ambitious military objective here - which is to smash Hamas. The Israeli airforce should be giving aviation lessons to the USAF in Afghanistan.

11:31 AM  
Blogger Kurt Langmann said...

My best friend was caught in the middle of Bloody Sunday rioting as a Catholic teen and left Belfast for over 30 years before going back a couple years ago when the economic situation improved, which had brought about a climbdown on both sides for a reasonable peace. That's the only way things will improve in Israel-Palestine but the two extremes won't let it happen and they feed off each other's successes. Hamas wants the most reactionary and warring Israeli parties to win elections, and vice versa, and make everyone's life miserable and fearful because that's the only way either can maintain their hold on power. They egg each other on. I can't stand either of them and am willing to bet most Israelis and Palestinians would be glad to see the back of them.

4:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i hate u fuking jews world wouldve been such a good place if u motherfukers didnt exist. i reali hope that all u jew cunts die and burn in hell for creting a war in this world. i respect hitler for wat he did to ur people and i wish i could do that too. ur the reason why there is war in middle east and thousand of people had died. you go to soem one elses country take over thier land and then kill thier children what does that solve u penis headed mother fukers.

10:57 PM  

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